Mori, Leopard. Help.

Posted October 30, 2007 by Johnnygri

Hello there, from what I gather Mori has been sold on, but please bear with me.

Mori is wonderful, I use it daily, but it's broken under Leopard.

It appears that Apokalypse Software (who own/"maintain" Mori right?) have either died or simply don't care about Mori, there hasn't been any project updates from them as far as I can tell.

Can we persuade Hog Bay to implement a fix so that Mori may remain a useful application under Leopard?

I hope so. John

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Johnnygri - November 7, 2007 4:53 AM

Any chance of letting me know why you won't talk about it?

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Johnnygri - November 7, 2007 4:57 AM

It appears there is now activity over at Apokalypse. Continue ignoring.

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jesse - November 7, 2007 9:12 AM

Sorry for not responding earlier. With TaskPaper's release I've been spending all day every day trying to keep up with emails and use forum threads. I answer as much as I can, but more then a few fall through the cracks like this one.

The best way to bring it to my attention is to keep bumping the topic as you've done... so now in answer to your original question...

I'm sorry but the answer is no. The whole reason that I sold Mori was because I didn't have time to give it the attention that I thought it needed. I'm sorry that you are not happy with the work that Apokalypse has been putting into it, but believe me they have been doing a better job then I could have.

I got burned out on Mori. After a while it just wasn't fun to work on for me. And as a result even simple fixes and changes became insurmountable obstacles. My choice was to keep selling it and just not tell anybody that it was a dead project for me. Open source it and have it languish. Or find someone else who would work on it. I choose door number three. Again things might move slower then you like, but I still think Apokalypse is doing a better job then I could.

At this point I haven't had much more then a day in the last two weeks to work on TaskPaper's code, and that's my flagship app that really excites me.

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MattMiller - November 8, 2007 6:41 PM

Jesse:

Your comments, while appreciated for their candor, lead me to question whether I'd buy software from you again. What's to say that a year or two from now that you tire of TaskPaper?

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jesse - November 8, 2007 8:05 PM

Your comments, while appreciated for their candor, lead me to question whether I'd buy software from you again. What's to say that a year or two from now that you tire of TaskPaper

I think that's pretty unfair. I'm no worse then any other developer in this respect, and in fact I think a lot about these issues, and work on them harder then do most developers.

First about Mori. I've been developing Mori (was Hog Bay Notebook, but there has been an upgrade path the entire way) since early 2003. Mori is one of the very few notebooks that's been in development that long. The list is even smaller if you qualify that by "significant" development. Here's a search on versiontracker for "notes" sorted by revers last release date:

notes applications listed on versiontracker reverse last release date

And those are just the programs that have been left up on versiontracker. I'm sure a lot of programs disappeared and were deleted from the listing. And on top of all that Mori's development hasn't even stopped, I just sold it to another developer. I'm not working on it anymore, but they are. So I'm sorry that you are not happy with the current development, but I don't really know what more I could have done.

Second about TaskPaper, and the general longevity of my apps...

It doesn't really mater who the developer is, all apps are at risk of being abandoned. This includes apps that are much more popular and loved then my own... Apple-Hypercard. The MORE outliner, Karelia-Watson (opps lets not forget Apple-Sherlock too). MarsEdit, until it was picked up by red-sweater. That's a really small selection of a really long list of abandoned software.

If I win the lottery or get hit by a bus tomorrow, then TaskPaper development is likely to slow. At the same time I've been doing Mac shareware for a pretty long time now (but I'm still young, so don't worry about me retiring for a while yet), I'm having fun, and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon. And even if I did stop at this very second I don't think you would be out all that much. My apps, like all apps, have a few bugs, but all the basics work, and should continue to work for the foreseeable future. And even if apple replaces OS X with something completely new, your data is all plain text (or RTF for some WriteRoom documents) based so you'll be able to take your data with you in any case.

Jesse

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Stas - December 11, 2007 7:42 PM

To address the issue of winning the lottery, or getting hit by a bus, or even being tired of working on a project -- have you considered opening the source code?

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jesse - December 11, 2007 8:40 PM

Open sourcing the apps that I'm currently selling is actually something that I want to investigate. It obviously has some issues, it would make it really easy for someone to strip out the copy protection, or steal the code... but for a number of reasons I don't think that would really have that much effect on sales.

The bigger issue is getting all the code into a state that I want to be seen in public. Plus I do need to figure out some license stuff so that I'm protected if someone else decides to just take the code and start selling it as a new app.

So I'm not sure, but in a few years I wouldn't be surprised if I all my apps, including the ones that I'm selling, are open source. But not yet ;)

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Nathan Jones - January 31, 2008 11:05 PM

While I have no objection to you making code open source (do it for just one app first to see how it affects sales), there is another way to address the "getting hit by a bus" issue - a will. In the event of death or inability to continue development, ask that your next-of-kin either take on the project or release it as open source at that point in time.

As for winning the lottery or getting bored, I don't see that as an issue: you seem like a dedicated and reasonable sort of person who would make arrangements to hand over development to someone else instead of just abandoning the software.

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bruce5 - February 19, 2008 12:20 PM

Not good enough, Jesse.

I bought Hog Bay Notebook way back when I thought I could trust your company. I have come to the site just now to find that it's disappeared.

You need to remember that a notebook app is different than other apps. We have recorded huge amounts of information to your notebooks over the years. That makes it different than, say, an app that allows you to pause a song on itunes without changing apps. Obviously you were not taking this very sensitive customer service issue into account when you decided it "was not fun anymore."

And just bailed.

Now, we are all left with your languishing software notebook system with no support, no hope of upgrades, and a fear that is related to all of the years of data that has been collected. The notebook in leopard is indeed buggy, and I fear losing data.

At the very least, you could have worked with another notebook developer to make it easy for us to import data to another system?

disappointed in Dallas, Bruce

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jesse - February 19, 2008 12:50 PM

I have...

Included a simple text file/folder hierarchy export from Hog Bay Notebook (since version 1.0?) This has always allowed you to get your notes out of Hog Bay Notebook in a sensible form that most other notebooks can import.
Put a lot of effort into a new notebook, Mori that addressed many of Hog Bay Notebook shortcomings. Offered free Mori upgrades to Hog Bay Notebook users, only asked for donations if you found the new changes useful. NOTE, Mori can import Hog Bay Notebook 3.5 notebooks.
After 5+ years of Hog Bay Notebook/Mori development I sold Mori to a new developer who is continuing to improve and develop the project. Last version released was Version: 1.6.8, 1/2/2008, less then two months ago.

Hog Bay Notebook/Mori one of the longest running OS X notebook projects that's still in active development. You've always had an easy export option, and Hog Bay Notebook/Mori development is still active, just by a different developer.